Hi guys. Welcome back to the weekly segment that Mike and I do where we kind of check in and talk about some reader questions. Today I wanted to go over one of the ones that we got in our YouTube comments and just also wanted to highlight if you’re on YouTube and you’re watching on YouTube, make sure you leave a comment if you have any questions. That also helps the algorithm. Make sure you like it, subscribe, and you may be featured in another video like we’re doing today. But today’s comment is, Michael, you touched on something I’ve been trying to work on in analyzing myself. I noticed I have triggers while trading that are simply in the wrong place or at the wrong time. Not sure if you might have a suggestion on how to reprogram myself in that respect.
Pass. Let’s go to the next one. So look, reprogramming yourself isn’t going to happen overnight. Something might hit you like a lightning bolt in terms of getting insight, but behavior predicts where you end up and you have to do, there’s this fancy world called Praxis where it’s the marriage of belief with your behavior. So that’s why we always start on some of the consulting stuff with what’s your goal? And as soon as someone says, I want to make X amount of dollars per day, we’re like, either we can’t work with them because that’s really not a smart goal to have. You want to have a goal that’s in and around a process and that you focus on replicating the process. So I think I’ll borrow from Sue and the Art of War, which I do from time to time, just because you can’t really stress the importance of planning enough, and that is the victorious warrior first wins and then seeks battle.
So if you’re getting triggered throughout the day, what could that possibly be? Could it be that the instrument that your long is moving against you and so you’re either losing money or you’re giving back some unrealized gains and that triggers you emotionally to engage with the market when there’s no financial plan around what you’re actually doing or if it’s moving up and you’re not in, do you feel like you have to chase? Is that a trigger? I suppose it can be. Eventually this might even come from your subconscious. That’s why there’s not one little sentence that I can give you and have it wave my hand like Yoda and cure you from it because it comes from behavior. You have to go through it, you know yourself and calibrate your feelings with your actions, which is not theoretical, right? It’s something that you actually have to do.
At least I did. I don’t suspect it’s going to be easier for folks to intellectualize. It’s easy to read books from Marcus Aurelius and Stoicism and all that, but to actually do it, it doesn’t happen overnight from having read the book. You see what I’m saying? So that stuff is all interesting, but as far as I’m concerned, it’s not terribly practical as a one day fix because any type of a philosophy like that, it’s not just a one day type of a thing, it’s a way of life. So you kind of have to get into it and live it. And so when I think about traders and what would make them get triggered, it also kind of lends me to think that they’re traders, right? Because why other would you be watching the market every day? Two, if you knew what the expected value of a trade was and you knew that you’re going to lose 40 to 60% of the time and that ahead of time, why would that still bother you when you put on any one particular trade?
So you have these emotional expectations and they say expectations have built in disappointments. So you just have to take one trade after the other and not become emotionally connect, connected to any one particular outcome of that trade and detach, they say love with detachment, right? So you can love your process, but on any given trade, who cares how it goes. And so again, for beginners, I know this is blasphemous for many people, but I wouldn’t be watching everything tick by tick. And two, this happens a lot when people don’t look at the volatility of the instrument that they’re trading and they’re putting their stop into close, which means it’s within the boundaries of what a normal person would figure is acceptable in terms of noise, right? Because even if you look at the average true range of an instrument for stocks or commodity futures contract, it’s not really a directional indicator. It just says this is the typical personality of the instrument. So for example, if you’re trying to scalp on the big natural gas contract and you’re risking 5 cents because you don’t want to lose more than $500 on that contract, each penny is a hundred bucks, but the normal volatility is 17, it’s over 17. So you’re thought you’re talking about almost $1,800 of vol that goes with that contract. And if you’re trying to trade it within that number, you might get knocked out just because of noise.
So you have to be practical when you look at your trading and where you put your stops in. You see now there are ways, and I’ve read about folks and I know hope, folks who are kind of reading the news and they want to see, especially around some of these reports around the energies or the crush numbers and beans or earnings reports and stocks, and they go in and they put in a monster trade only giving a few ticks figuring that they’re going to time the market really, really well with the announcement as it would happen. And they only give a few ticks. Why? Well, because they’re trading the move huge. They’re expecting a lot of volatility in a certain direction, and so they put on a monster trade, but they don’t give it a whole lot of room to work against them because it’s a large position. That’s one way to do it. My style would be more to add small and then add to the winners over time.
So there’s the triggering of the chasing, there’s the triggering of having a contract move against you and then internalizing what the dollar loss is. If you convert that to percentages, then it shouldn’t really matter because every loss should largely be the same percentage of your account may call it whatever you’re comfortable with, maybe one half of 1% or quarter percent, whatever that might be. I would find it harder to do hard dollar stops because of the nature of the fact that you probably have open positions in your portfolio that are getting marked to the market with every trade in real time and the instrument that you’re get that’s triggering, you might be moving perhaps in a different direction. I think again, you should focus on your process more than the results of any one particular trade. Now, when you’re newer, easier said than done because you don’t have enough experience in trading to detach yourself necessarily from your system because you might still be going to the market and seeking some type of validation. Am I really a trader here? I know I’m doing some things that traders do. I’m adding and removing risk. But what is it that you’re looking for from your trading where you can validate yourself?
Because if it’s the result of any one particular trade, that’s going to be hard to live with because on any given day you’re going to get smacked in your head and it could affect your self-esteem or your sense of self-confidence or who you think you are in the world as a person. And so I try to stay out of the results of the trades and not look at the outcome. So I just basically focus on you have stops to enter and then you have stops to exit. I don’t call them stop losses, that’s bad as far as I’m concerned. So you have stops to enter, which we did another video on, you can go look it up and then you have stops to exit trades sometimes for a loss and sometimes to preserve unrealized gains.
But again, now you can meditate on that long before you even put trades on and say, okay, given the number of trades that I could put on, here is the deal. Here’s what I can expect to happen happened in the past from my back test so I can anticipate something similar happening going forward. So, and you can anticipate what’s going to happen going forward, where you’re going to lose 40 to 60% of the time on your trades. Why would you get upset about that if that’s what actually played out in real time, unless of there was a way for you to win by being a victim or seeking attention for all the wrong reasons. Maybe a person got used to bitching and belly aching and they liked all that kind of feedback from their peer group. I don’t find it particularly productive to complain because then I feel like I’ve surrendered all my power and I’m too powerful to complain about a situation. I’m going to find the solution. That’s what I do. But you have to have a certain type of emotional build for that. Not everyone has it, they can get it. But again, chapter two of the book is surrender. There’s a lot of things in life you can’t control, and the results from your trading is something you’re powerless over. All you can do is follow your rules and stay out of the results.
Yeah, for sure. I mean that, that’s a really big takeaway in a lot of things in life, right? It’s like learning how to not worry about the extraneous factors that you can’t control for. Just do it. You know, do best, like you said, put in your stops and make sure you have your own form of insurance policies and your own form of algorithms that you go through. But even in cycling and gaming and stuff, it’s like at the high level you have to just have to be on top of your mental game if you allow yourself to dig yourself deeper into a hole. We call that in gaming, we call it tilt queuing, and it’s horrible for your mental. It is the worst thing you can do for your mentality and going forward, it solves nothing. It makes your life much harder too. And one of the ways that I learned to combat that and not just continue to mindlessly play the game is understanding, okay, am I upset right now?
You have to ask yourself that a lot, especially in gaming. Am I upset right now? Is this a good idea? And then what I do in particular is I actually meditate on it, kind of like you said, I really do meditate in between things like, okay, if I’m upset, I need to realize that and I need to figure out how I can reset myself. I think that’s part of the reprogramming aspect. And I’m not sure if it applies necessarily the same way to trading, but I think understanding when you’re upset in general is typically a good thing. And then also developing a strategy post recognization saying, oh, I’m upset. What do I do from here? And coming up with that strategy?
Well, there you go. I mean, there’s a good example of how it’s not really about any one outcome. I can see where it comes from when you talked about going on tilt, people can do that all the time, but that’s because they’re in desperate. They’re in desperation at that point. And I think a person kind of knows when they’re acting out of desperation, that’s exactly the time you shouldn’t trade. You should truly really try to figure out what is it actually that you want your money to do for you? Most people are going to say, well, I want to grow my account, but there’s so much more to it. It’s not just the number. What are you willing to do? I was talking with somebody who has a pretty tight stop on their equity and said, I said to the person, look at that point, it tells me a couple of things is like you’re till you’re scared to lose money.
And if you’re trading from that fear, there’s a saying on trading that you’re trading with scared money and it’s hard to win when you’re trading what scared money. You have to put yourself in the mindset that whatever your grubstake is, you have to be ready, willing and able to lose it all. And until you do that, you are absolutely trading with scared money. And I find it super difficult. And I think that’s one of the reasons why the smaller accounts gravitate to doing the shorter term stuff because they feel like they’re more in control, which is a fallacy, but nonetheless, that’s a strong feeling that they have.
And so you can develop bad habits when you’re acting out of emotion because you’re not acting out of expected values and investment finance, you’re feeding an emotional need more than a financial need. And in most of the times you’re cauterizing really good trades before they’re actually should be cauterized. But I don’t come to the marketplace see saying, I need this win or I need this dollar value because of course the market’s not going to give it to you. So kind of dovetailing this into another question that someone asked about focusing on your process. The goal is, lemme see if I can find it. Hang on a second, I’m just going to have to do this.
Yeah, I’m just going to hold up my drink here so I know where to cut.
Yeah, so someone’s talked about focus and goals and this and that, and it’s like, look, you need to know what you want your money to do for you, right? Because then you know, can better draw the boundaries as to what it is that you want. That where until you have a clear vision again of what you want your money to do for you as a human being, what financial and emotional needs will be set. I think it’s hard for you to pick that target point in the future so you can find yourself doing almost anything during the day because you’re in desperation as opposed to saying and coming to the that you have a lot more power than you think you’re powerless over the markets, but you don’t. You’re not powerless over your own behavior. You have to claim it, you have to own it.
And you have to understand that we are in a paradigm of personal responsibility. And as soon as you accept yourself as your own savior, so to speak, you’re going to let the outside world affect your inner game. And that’s nothing but catastrophic. That doesn’t work in trading. If you’re going to be a person who reacts to what happens to the outside world as opposed to saying, here’s my goal, here’s what I’m willing to do. Here’s the expected value of my trade and all I need to do is replicate my process over and over, that’s a much more healthy outlook because then it’s not necessarily any one trade that you care about, it’s the process of putting on those trades because the process predicts your behavior, it is your behavior, and that predicts where you end up in life. So when I say the goal is the process, it’s really the result of the process.
But on any given day, all you can do is follow your process. So I don’t want to sound like I’m talking out of both side, both sides of my mouth, but as they say, thoughts, feelings, actions, you have to act as if you’re in possession of the very goal that you want to achieve because otherwise it’s very difficult to know how to kind of wing it, right? Because the goals that you should be setting for yourself are goals that you haven’t set before. So you don’t know how to do them. And I’m not talking about getting a pilot’s license. If you want to go get a pilot’s license, that’s a goal that you know how to get. You got to go to a regional airport where they give lessons, pay your fees, pass the physical and all that, put your hours in, pay the money and get the hours, maybe get instrument rated, whatever it is that you want to do. But that’s easy enough to do. The kind of goal that you want to really have that’s going to change your life should scare the living crap out of you. And if it doesn’t, you got the wrong goals.
Now, you can use also the Kelly criteria, which you can look it up right there, is Google’s great. Just type the question and you look it up yourself. If based on what you’re willing to risk and what you think you can make from an expected value standpoint, you can actually calculate the number of trades that you would have to put on to get where you want to go. So I’ll give you an example. There’s a couple of metrics that you want to look at. If you’re newer, right? You want to make sure that you’re not making 15 bucks an hour because that’s minimum wage, and maybe sitting at your desk is better, making 15 bucks that way than working at in and out burger or whatever. I’ve had odd jobs over the years, so I’m not being critical. But you don’t want to turn trading into blue collar despair because you can already do that in other parts of your life.
So don’t enroll trading in your garbage. So have a stretch goal that should intimidate you. It’s going to leave a mark, it’s going to hurt. You’re going to have to challenge yourself. Now, if you’re a person who’s got a bit of an ego, you want to keep your mouth shut, then because it soon start pontificating about what it is that you’re going to do, people are going to hold you to it. So the best way to kind of dip your toe into this space is to keep your mouth shut. And don’t brag as market’s going to humble and humiliate you anyway, so I’m telling you it will. So don’t open your mouth, set your goal, keep it close to the vest, but just realize if your goal is to say risk 50 bucks so that you could make a hundred bucks, perfect, that’s two to one.
Different traders have different ratios in terms of asymmetry that they want in their payoff. I remember reading a lot of folks just talking three r and one R is an example I use a lot in the teaching. I remember reading Paul Tudor Jones had a ratio of needed five to one X before he would even put the trade on. So I think it’s going to vary from person to person. But when you put the dollar signs to that and you calculate your expected value, you can calculate how many trades you’re going to need to put on in order to hit your goal. So if you find yourself in a spot where you’re just starting and your gains and losses are so small, you might have to put on 4,000 trades over the course of the year to hit the goal. In my mind’s, Zion, that’s not terribly practical.
It’s a lot of work for small potatoes. One of the reasons why I advocate don’t necessarily sell your winners just because it’s the end of the day, you know, get paid a risk premium to have good risk in your account. How do you know if it’s good? Well, it’s going up as a simple rule of thumb. If it’s long and it’s going up, it seems to be a good risk. And you could also figure out ahead of time, what is the amount of money that you’re willing to risk in a winning trade or of the winning trades that you have in order to stay in the trades to let them grow to be even bigger winners. Because that too is learned behavior. You can learn to do it. If you’ve learned to cut your winners off at three R, you can learn to do it at four R, five R, six R, seven R and try it on for size. That’s the only way you’re going to learn. And I admit I’ve been, people are selling all kinds of crap on the internet. I don’t know anyone else who said that. The best trader teacher that you can have is you trading.
Even if you don’t know what you’re doing, buy one, share, learn from the process. Learn from being engaged. If are more sophisticated, trader, longer term, you have many, many years of experience and you’re already good and you want to get better, one of the things that you can do is learn to take haircuts on your capital so that this way when you’re really getting good, you’re not full of hubris. If that can be an issue and you start to feel feelings of invincibility, how do I know? Cause I’ve been there, I’ve had times when it was bad and I was only winning on two or three trades out of every 10. And in those types of ratios, list over what the market shows you, but you’re not really doing much more than break and even be and maybe plus 10, 12%, which you can get from passive buy and hold.
So then the question is, why are you doing all this work if you can’t outperform buy and hold? Because surrendering to the fact that you can’t create alpha, you can still get your money to grow and then free up all that time to go find something that you’d really be good at, which is part of life. There’s nothing wrong with that. Just because you’re a trader or not a trader doesn’t mean anything. But most people don’t talk about this. How do you fight off hubris? Well say that you are at 150 to 200% of your starting capital. Awesome. You’re doing well, you’re really lucky. You got good timing. I don’t know which it is. Could be all three. Of course, you tell everybody that you got skill because that’s probably what I would do too.
But in order to not get caught up in the hubris where then I’ve had other times in oh 5, 0 6 when China was buying all those commodities, six or seven out of 10 trades were winning and the winners didn’t, were more like three or four to one. They went also like 6, 7, 8 to one. So not only was the system more accurate because there was a deluge of capital coming into those markets, it was easy to take 10 cents at a copper over the course of a week. You could clip 60 bucks in gold, right? Sugar went from eight to 19, for example. So those markets were really good for the getting, but you can also get caught up in that. So one way to not get caught up in the hubris, if that’s also a trigger for you because it would be thematic in your life, is to say, okay, I’ve doubled my money.
I’m at 200%, but in order to kind of gauge my sense of hubris and my invincibility, I’m only going to trade 140% of my capital. So instead of saying I’ve doubled my money from say, 10 million to 20 million, I’m going to actually trade it only like it’s 14 million as opposed to saying I’m going to trade it like 30 million because that’s how you can get caught up. So you can get caught up two ways. Going back to being triggered and knowing what the goals are. The goal is to make sure you have small drawdowns. Obviously you have to be in it to win it, but you always have to make sure that you have really good risk adjusted returns. That’s the selling feature. It’s not that you’ve made 10 times your capital, because I find it hard to think that allocators are going to give you money if yes, you can double your money, but you have 60% draw down and a 10% chance of getting blown up and having total ruin, like no one’s going to ever give you money towards that because then you will lose all the money sooner or later.
If you trade long enough with those types of numbers, you’re going to really blast yourself. So I would develop a system that you’re compatible with and then replicate it and not worry about any one particular day because I know how these places work. They’re very political. If someone’s in a drawdown, you’re worried about the gossip. And that’s a failure on leadership when you think about it. There shouldn’t be gossip around. You should circle the wagons around the people who are in the drawdown, especially if they’re struggling and nurture them and love them as opposed to everyone not talking about the pink elephant that’s in the room because then it takes a special person to dig out of that hole.
So I mean, that’s what we encounter oftentimes with some of the institutional clients is that they don’t know who to trust because they know people are talking behind their back, which sucks. But that’s just human nature I suspect. But for better or for worse, I’m in Los Angeles. I’m not in New York, Chicago or London showing up at the local watering holes talking about who’s trading well and who’s struggling or who’s in drawdown. It’s all part of life. You trade long enough, you’re going to be in a drawdown. Doesn’t really say anything about who you are as a person. I know plenty of people who have been in very steep and protracted drawdowns, and that’s just their trading style and they learn to dig out. But I feel like if you’re getting triggered, there’s a deep emotional need that’s getting fulfilled by you actually getting triggered, allowing yourself to get triggered, and then going through that whole process, it meets some type of emotional need.
So you have to learn how to process those feelings, in my opinion, before you even put those trades on. I think it’s hard to do with a simulator, but I do think a simulator, meaning a simulator’s not going to cure you, but it can give you an idea of what you can expect if you put those trades on. So if you’re getting results and you’re in a draw down, but you’re still within the range of what you expected, you’re kind of in model. And so there’s nothing really to get upset about at that point unless you like getting upset. I don’t particularly like going off or flying off the handle because it doesn’t really serve me. It doesn’t help me get more creative. Anger is typically not a motivator for me.
I’m much more pragmatic at this stage. So I mean, it’s long-winded way of answering a few of the questions here. But the point being is that if you’re watching things tick by tick, your account’s probably too small or you’re trading something too big because there’s really no reason why you’d have to watch it tick by tick. Cause if you know what your price targets are, and even if you’re doing things like rookie traders are setting up their three R and their one R thing and you’re long, well, you could enter a sell limit above the market so that if it hits your three R number, you’re out and you put in your protective stop, one r below, and that’s that, and then the going to come to you or it’s not. There’s nothing really to get triggered. Just sit and let the market activity unfold. The best you can do is follow your rules because behavior predicts where you end up. If you keep getting triggered by stuff.
Look, if you have 30 years experience and you know how to read the tape, even in the a advent, advent of decimalization and the 8,000 algorithms that are running, then by all means read the tape and see where the day’s going. But for newer folks, I don’t think that’s something interesting to endeavor. You can certainly learn a lot about the markets and yourself in the process, but I think it’s awfully difficult to try to pull that off with limited experience because you don’t have a field yet, and it takes a long time. You might show promise, you might have good instincts and good intuition, but it still takes a lot longer than you think to develop a really, really good feel.
And just to touch on the process thing, part of the biggest thing about being a successful athlete and successful competitor, and I know this will for sure apply to trading, is having your process race morning. I did the same thing every race morning, the exact same thing. Every Saturday when I had a race, I’d wake up, I’d have a cup of coffee, I’d have eggs with rice. It was a six egg omelet with rice, I’d have a little bit of tri-tip with it, like three to four ounces, and then I’d go meet with my coach. We’d have our hour and a half of talking and prepping, and then for the last 10 minutes we did our strategy and that was it. Then I was ready to go, and throughout that process, I started to learn as I was developing it, how beneficial it was for me to do the same thing over and over again because you can’t predict how any one race is going to go you.
I mean, you could guess, but you know, have no control over a lot of these factors if somebody crashes in the first five minutes or whatever. So having that level of consistency in the morning really got me in the mental head space to kind of deal with any adversity, right? It’s like, all right, I had a great breakfast, I got to meet with my coach, hang out with my buddies. We talked strategy a little bit, and that was that, and that put me in a really clear and level state of mind where when I got onto the start line, I wasn’t jittery, my hands weren’t shaking, I was like ready to go. I wasn’t like thinking about the dude who I bumped into last race and how I could give him the elbow in a corner or something. It’s just about learning to deal with
No elbows in the corner, elbows to the jawbone. Dude, you got to be right
Here. I may have gotten a little bit
Better, and I’m Christian. I’m a Christian,
And it was just Easter, so we got to keep it Christian, for sure.
Next week I’m going to wear purple for Pentecost, okay, and I’ll button, first of all, there’s a special type of death people should feel when they button the top button and wear it like this.
Yeah, that’s
Special, dude.
Yeah, yeah. Look, there’s no doing that. If you’re Italian, if you button the top button and you’re Italian, you’re doing something wrong.
So what we’re talking about here is how important it is to have a process and trust the process because that’s when you can start having fun. Then you take solace in the fact that you’re addicted to your discipline. Not all the market activity, a
Hundred percent.
I don’t think it’s when people say, oh man, I’m a market junkie. I don’t think that’s a good thing. Actually, what you want to be able to do is put yourself in a spot where any given day is any given day. Monday is the same as Friday, is the same as Wednesday, and when you really get it down, here’s the beautiful thing. No one can tell whether I’m up a lot or whether I’m down a lot. Why? Because I’m just in the process, and that’s a good thing. Imagine if I was all brooding and stuff and pissed off because I was down. It’s childish. To me, it’s childish. At least I can explain my own behavior. If I was acting that way, I would say that acting like a petant teenager, and I’d say to myself, grow up.
And so I think a person’s mindset. That’s why I firmly believe that 80, 90% of this stuff is mindset. It’s not about let me review my charts and show you what I think’s going to happen. First of all, I don’t want that kind of traffic because then people start to follow up and say, Hey, are you still in that? Did you, did you add more? Like, I don’t want to develop that type of an audience. I’d rather say, go do it yourself. And when you run into problems, which are no doubt, psychological and mental, then come back to me because that’s the biggest part of the game. Even though I can’t sell it, right? I can sell you a system, and I’m smart enough as a writer that could come up with long form stuff with the video sales letter and get people to convert.
But the goal is to actually help people not sell shit on the internet. So that’s why this show is largely free. You can go take it and do what you want because you’re going to learn the most by doing it alone anyway, especially in trading. It’s not a group endeavor. Even if you’re at a prop trading firm, you are on despite what you think your resources are, because if you fail out, there’s about a million people who are going to take that seat. Despite the interview process and how hard it is. Most of that stuff is not predictable anyway. So if the firm is bragging about how hard their interview process is, call me because I’ll tell you how to crack the code. There’s whatever. I’m not going to get into calling someone’s girlfriend ugly. But most of that stuff is made up and it’s peacocking to make it sound like it’s exclusive or to make it sound like you’re interviewing for Amazon or for Google. One day we’ll talk about the interview process that I was went through on Wall Street.
Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. That’d be interesting. I think that’s a good place to kind of wrap up today too. We had a lot of good points, but I think one of the big takeaways is just develop your process and don’t treat it. Don’t go searching for that adrenaline hit or the dopamine hit. Just kind of do your process and trust that process and just go. With that said, guys, thank you so much for watching the video today. Make sure you like and subscribe, comment, and helps the algorithm. Press the notification bell and we will see you guys next time.
Thanks everybody. Thanks for being here.
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